Self-Defense

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    7 MARTIAL ARTS YOU PROBABLY NEVER HEARD OF
    Some Less Well Known Martial Arts
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      Will - Black Belt Wiki Just put up a quick wiki page on Lerdrit - http://www.blackbeltwiki.com/lerdrit

      If there are any Thai martial arts experts, please feel to add some additional info on Lerdrit on this thread and I will transfer it to the main wiki.

      Will
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      Will - Black Belt Wiki Interesting video

      I didn't have Lerdrit. A military version of Muay Thai/Muay Boran... sounds cool (and extremely effective). I will definitely add that one to the wiki!

      FYI - Others are on the wiki :)

      Jailhouse Rock - http://www.blackbeltwiki.com/jailhouse-rock
      Dambe - http://www.blackbeltwiki.com/dambe
      Kalaripayattu (Kalari Payat) - http://www.blackbeltwiki.com/kalaripayattu
      Silat - http://www.blackbeltwiki.com/silat
      Okichitaw - http://www.blackbeltwiki.com/okichitaw
      Systema - http://www.blackbeltwiki.com/systema

      Will
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      Andy Here are a couple more videos focusing on 'Jailhouse Rock' (the Prison derived martial art system, not the Elvis movie :)
      https://youtu.be/38uVH9-DCdk
      https://youtu.be/uu0VREWleck
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    Resisting and non-resisting training partners: The dojo effect
    Lately I've been thinking about two different kinds of training partners a lot: the resisting and the non-resisting one (arguably, there's a large gray area in between).

    If you foremost train martial arts for self-defense reasons (of course, there are other perfectly valid reasons), I'd argue that training with a resisting partner is crucial. However, I've seen many places promoting self-defense where this does not happen. Attacks are often just announced one-step attacks and little or no attempts are made by the training partner to block or evade counter attacks, locks and throws. This is sometimes also called the dojo effect.

    While scaffolding is certainly important to learn how to block, launch a counter attack, apply a lock or take down an opponent, the ultimate goal, in my opinion, should be to learn how to face a resisting opponent since in a self-defense situation you're very unlikely to deal with a non-resisting one.

    Admittedly, it is difficult to create a good and safe training environment that allows training with a resisting partner. After all, we don't want to hurt each other.

    What are your thoughts on this? How do you make sure you don't fall into the traps of the dojo effect?
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      Mark Winter I practice Aikido and we teach that the attacker should not resist but don't give. Make the defender move you before "going along" with the technique. But of course there are techniques (such as arm breaking and choking out a person) that can only be simulated.
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      Mary Cayte Reiland In our dojang, we make it a point to tell our students that one-step self defense training or one-step sparring are not effective in real life situations. During class, I will say that the dojo effect applies greatly to us, however, there are times when after class certain people (sometimes me) will mix it up with fighting, grappling, throws, and joint locks. It's not a perfect system, but I think we cover a lot of training with a resisting partner during these exercises.
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      Llewena Carrero What I do is initially I teach the kids/adults the technique we are focusing on in a non resistant manner. Then I ask the lower grade of the pair to do the attack, how to aim and how quick or hard they are to go. The higher grade is then to do the defence technique with (hopefully) the right level of force since they have trained for longer and 'know' the ropes so to speak.
      I also comment they should be good partners giving some resistance and some force BUT to remember its their turn next. It's funny to see kids faces go from evil smiles (you can picture what they are planning) to oh I'd better be nice and not rough looks. I walk around the class and randomly test the resistance levels and force levels and let them know they need to increase or decrease for the particular technique.
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    Best martial arts if you live in a rough neighborhood?
    If you live in a rough neighborhood or have to travel through a tough neighborhood frequently, what martial arts would you learn?

    Please no answers like buy a gun or knife. Or answers like find a new place to live or work.

    I want to hear honest answers about martial arts training. I know it also depends on the teacher (as weak teachers can make good martial arts styles useless). Would you pick something all round like mma? Something focused on selfdefense like Krav Maga? Something like cane masters (that uses legal items)? Something like Muay Thai for powerful strikes (so you can get away quickly after a powerful counterattack)?
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      Andy John that is a deep and excellent question! I am as you have probably gathered by now a (mostly) Japanese stylist but I am not going to do the expected and recommend a style that I train in. I would personally recommend Krav or one of the Russian styles (after watching some of the excellent videos sent to me by our fellow member Mike). These seem to me to be the best all round styles best suited to self defence. As for more information on the best Russian style, Over to you Mike!
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      Ray McLean It foes not matter what style of martial art train in , if you train hard and apply yourself , also stay out trouble . Then you should never have to defend yourself , no matter where you live.
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      Ced Greetings Chris, to the best of my knowledge your assumption would be correct. I have searched through my notes and references and can't find Choi Yung Sool's Japanese name which would shed some light on his history. The only thing I did recall was that my original Daito Ryu sensei gave a class on the history of Daito Ryu as it pertained to the Makimono or (transmission of techniques). It was through that class that I became aware that Choi Yung Sool was issued one which he took to Korea to eventually create Hapkkido . Sorry I couldn't be more helpful in that area. As to Goshin Aikijujutsu. Goshin 護身 is more of a reference to the system's focus which taught techniques in a more offensive and combative mindset rather than spiritual and defensive as in Aikido. My Goshin Aikijujutsu instructor was army ranger during WWII and after the war studied Aikido but blended what he knew of real combat his tradition aikido training and his Oikiru Jujutsu background. Hence the name of the style. Hopefully that answers your question.
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    Martial arts not practical?
    There is a lot of talk both online and offline about MA not being practical for self defense. Every MA out there have been targeted. Kobudo has been deemed unrealistic because most weapons are not found outside the dojo. BJJ has been argued to be only practical on a one-on-one confrontation. Even MMA has been accused of being limited by rules.

    How do you respond to accusations of impracticality of your style for self defense?
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      Andy [218075,Michael], fortunately nowadays there are some extremely comprehensive lists (composed by a dedicated team of MA experts) available online that tell you how effective your particular style is and in some cases they even go so far as to list the effectiveness of styles in numerical order to make it easier for us dummies who actually train in MA to see how our styles compare to each other.
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      Al W I'd rather have Martial Arts Training and not need to use it, than to need it and not have Martial Arts training

      It's better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardener in a war
      -Sun Tzu
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      Nico Don't think of it as an accusation. Consider the possibility that the other guy my have a point with an open mind. If he does, thank him for the newly gained insight.
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    Falling
    I went to a BJJ school yesterday and was asked if I knew how to "technical fall." I was not sure what he meant so when it was demonstrated I recognized it as a "reverse break fall" in Isshinryu.

    I have only been taught the forward roll, reverse roll, forward break fall (which is used when being thrown) and the reverse break fall. Are there other methods of falling taught in your style? Do you use any of these terms? Should we have a section in the wiki for falling techniques?
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      Andy Good post, it is currently very icy here in the north of England and so many people (especialy the elderly) end up in hospital with broken wrist and arms at this time of year because they have never been taught to fall and instinctively tense and stick out their arms when they slip. Knowing how to fall safely is yet another of the many extra benefits of MA training.
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      Will - Black Belt Wiki Just finished adding pages for all of the basic falling techniques (rolls & breakfalls - front, side and back) to the wiki - http://www.blackbeltwiki.com/martial-arts-falling-techniques

      Even added a page on the forward dive roll.

      Will
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      Andy A great excersise for learning how to fall without injury is to consume around 4 bottles of sake and then try to make it home. You will fall onto, into and against every conceivable object item or surface along the way yet remarkably wake up without the slightest injury (other than a fuzzy head and the feeling that someone has filled your mouth with concrete :)
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    How Impressive a Technique Looks and How Useful It Is for Self Defense
    I've often found in martial arts that the techniques used in most public demonstrations (and tournaments) are not the techniques that one would use to defend themselves. For example, a reverse roundhouse kick to the head thrown quickly but without much power can score a lot of points while sparring, but a kick to the side of the knee or a punch to the solar plexus would be a much more effective means of finishing a life or death fight.

    Do you think that focusing on impressive techniques that will win medals leads some schools to veer away from teaching their students from actually defending themselves, or is there more to this?
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      Andy @Bryce, great post and fully agree with @James. As we have discussed on several threads there are many elements to the martial arts but the 2 main facets are sport and self defence. I personally believe that at the core of 'most' traditional martial arts are techniques that can be (and indeed historically have been) used for effective self defence. Ever since Jigoro Kano developed Judo and many subsequent martial arts followed suit with the 'do' concept, greater emphasis has been put on the sporting side of martial arts and as such many of the techniques have been modified and are more conducive to sport (and MA and action movies!!!) than they are to real situation attack and defence. As James said you need to train for combat specifically (which can be done with most martial arts so long as the instructor understands the style and its roots completely and knows what works for point scoring, what works for contact sport and what works in the bars, clubs, streets etc). I will also tell you from personal experience that the most 'useful' techniques are often the most basic. By far the most useful techniques I have employed in the past are the basic blocks that were taught from my very first karate lesson onwards.
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      James I would say that some schoold definitely veer away from anything resembling realistic self defense. As I think ive said in a few posts the important thing is for the student to understand the context of what they are training for. The sporting side of karate is great fun and a good test of skill and some of these skills are transferable to a real fight however most are not. With the best will in the world a point sparring karate ka who only focuses on point sparring to win medals will be eaten alive by an averagely skilled single attacker with an aggressive mindset based on hurting them in a real world confrontation. The opponent is not going to square up and start bouncing backwards and forwards and stop hitting once they have landed one successful blow. They will be on you with fllurries of punches, scratches, bites, kicks and so may their friends. Similarly only mapping through kata without ever understanding and applying the moves in as realistic a scenario as possible will only teach you to dance and win kata competitions. In a situation where I am in danger I would drop more techniques that I have learned than those that I even think about employing. My legs wont go above the height of my opponents thigh or groin for example. In summary its fantastic that schools give their students the opportunity to compete in the various formats but people must never ever kid themselves about what their training is and isnt adequate preparation for.
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      Andy Here is an interesting article that is relevant to this topic that points out some of the differences between 'sport' Muay Thai and 'combat' Muay Boran.
      https://berniegourley.com/2014/01/23/5-differences-between-muay-boran-and-muay-thai/
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    Promotion
    I'm excited that my daughters ages 6 & 7 started karate in October and their promotions is coming up in December. Can't wait to see how they do under pressure from the judges.
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      Keston Destiny Well the promotions came and my little girls earned themselves both yellow tips. They performed two yellow belt katas and one white belt kata, they showed four different self defense techniques if attacked, and counted to ten in Japanese. It was a good day after all, little fast trackers.
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      PAUL (paldo) REYNOLDS Wish you and your daughters well in Japanese karate !
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      Al W Always good to see kids getting into Martial Arts, my daughter recently got her yellow belt (8th kyu).

      Well done to your daughters, and good luck for future promotions
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    Improvised weapon training
    many traditional martial arts weapons were adapted from everyday tools, this is especially true of Kobudo and Ninjutsu. In older times these were the only weapons available (especially to peasants and the working class). I am curious if anyone out there still keeps up this martial tradition? I for one have a shed (and house) full of potentially effective weapons that I regularly train with such as spades, shovels, rakes, hoes, axes, screw drivers, and even pens and pencils. Does anyone else do this?
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      Superamazingbadgerman He's right. Train in it A LOT, or don't do it at all.
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      Llewena Carrero Keys spaced through your fingers are impromptu knuckle dusters. I do this if I'm on my own and I'm in an area I feel unsafe or feel assistance would be too far away, even if I managed to defend myself against an attacker.

      Best weapon is common sense.
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      Andy If Will lets me I'll add step by step instructions for my 'Weed Whacker no Kata' to the wiki :)
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    Self defense tactics against multiple attackers
    Please tell me how to make a self defense when there are 7 or 8 people surrounding me.
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      James Realistically if you are in that situation you are pretty screwed. In a movie in this situation the hero will be in the middle fighting off one or two guys at a time, disposing of them easily while the others inexplicably hang back waiting for their turn. In reality you will have seven or eight fists, feet or whatever else coming at you at once from all angles. The only hope you have is to get out of there as quickly as possible forcing your way through the biggest gap, past the lightest, weakest looking people using whatever means necessary and run. If for whatever reason there is nowhere to run and deescalation won't work all you can do is keep moving and try to position yourself so that you can't be surrounded so that only one or two opponents can get to you at a time. Very difficult though, even if you were to practice the scenario to death so my over riding advice would be plan A - get out of there through the weakest point and run.
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      Ray No! You most likely can not. Any who claims other wise is doing a dis service and or wants to see tou hurt.

      Fighting 2 is hard enough. The human reflex is not fat enough to stop 3 or more strikes at once. Wich is what happens when you get jumped by 4 or more. (Experince in my youth) don't be fooled by movies or the random you tube video.

      Reality is if you are getting attacked honor and one on one does not apply. You will get hurt severely. Sticks and stones do break bones..... and they will get used. Your best defense is cardio
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      Andy PS, Thank you [231405,Parikshit Sen] for your question and for getting actively involved with the community :) We try our best to make this community as fun and informative as possible but the more members who post questions, topics, answers or even amusing videos etc will make for a richer, better community (hint hint other members!)
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    How would you defend yourself against a 300 lb man rushing at you?
    I thought it would be interesting to see what martial arts techniques people would use under different scenarios. Today's scenario - A very angry 300 lb football player is rushing at you and trying to tackle you. He is about 5 feet away and will tackle you in less than a second & start pounding on you.

    What would you do?

    Caveat - Please only discuss unarmed techniques for this scenario.

    Will
    Black Belt Wiki
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      Mary Cayte Reiland I was always taught to side step an oncoming attacker, if you can time it just right, you can push that attacker's head directly into the ground. Totally agreed with Michael Reeves... the best defense is to not be there.
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      Kenneth Winthrop Pivot out of the way, kick the side of the knee or the femoral area and drop him. Then apply a naked neck choke and put him to sleep.
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      Ray I at my lightest weigh 200 lbs. Genetics weight training and tacos all play a part in this.

      Considering I train take downs, grappling and throws to suplament my karate and boxing. How would you react to me?

      We assume that the big guy has no skill. But what if he is a amature wrestler, or boxer who just ate too many tacos? We never really know do we?

      Size and weight do play a major role in fighting. Skill can win when you are not cocky. But I have beaten far better ground players based on my mass, and strength alone...... and a few classes. My point is never assume the big guy is slow and un trained.


      Now lets answer this question again I am curious to how we would handle it if he were a wrestler.
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    How Much (If Any) Self Defence Is Practiced In Your Art?
    There are a couple of elements to this question, the first and most obvious is how much class time do you or your instructor dedicate to actual street defence and/or Bunkai (or its equivalent), the second slightly deeper element, how much of what your art involves do you personally think would be useable/transferable to actual street defence (both passive and aggressive)?
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      Nico In my opinion, it is not the style/martial art that determines the applicability in a self defense situation but the kind of training you engage in. One key point to consider is how much training against a non-cooperative partner/opponent takes place in the dojo. If you only practice self defense moves with cooperative partners (e.g. attacker leaves arm outstretched after punch so you can apply a joint lock), you may not be sufficiently prepared for a dynamic and possibly chaotic self defense situation.

      Having said this, I need to emphasize that setting up a good (and safe) training environment that fosters non-cooperation is not easy. Unlike in a street fight, we don't want to hurt each other in the dojo. We also need to build up our skills slowly and give each other chances to learn and apply techniques.

      Still, at the end of the day, the proof of the pudding is in the eating: If you can successfully pull off a certain technique against a fully resisting opponent in the dojo, you may also be able to use it defending yourself on the street. If not, well, you may not.
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      Carson Krav Maga is street fighting, so that's what we learn pretty much
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      Richard Berman We look at, and practice, using every waza and technique we learn, from other types of attacks than the pure waza itself. For us, waza are used to teach principles, not exact responses. We expect our jitsuka to learn these principles as independent from the specific "attack" used to learn the principle, and to reassemble EVERYTHING learned into a response appropriate to the encounter.
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    Does Practicing Martial Arts Make You A Better Fighter?
    Whilst researching another topic related to martial arts I came across this post on the Internet.
    http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/2014/09/martial-arts-and-the-cycle-of-.html
    At first I was intrigued, then sympathetic, then outright angry lol! I would like to hear what other members think on this subject. (I will immediately make my own feelings on the subject clear on the comments below)! :)
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      Alex This will be a long response:
      I will say I have to agree with most of what she wrote, at least in my limited experience. I find new people to be a lot weirder to submit (even with 5.5 years of experience over them) because they move a lot more erratically and unpredictable then a seasoned grappler that I am used to. They also use strength whereas my experienced male counterparts simply rely on technique and only use their strength to aid in their technique so there are times where I've had an easier time submitting a purple belt than a white belt with just a week or two of experience. Although I think in a self-defense situation I will be okay, okay as in not severely injured, but I understand that I will get hurt most likely because regular people don't move the way I'm used to my training partners moving.

      There is saying (I can't remember who said it unfortunately) that is common to hear in BJJ, that says that with each punch you lose a belt level. You may be a black belt but you get punched once, you start acting like a brown belt, second punch, purple and so on until you are just a white belt. Part of this quote is about how in a fight you will most likely go back to the bare bones basics you learned as a white belt but the other half is about how people in fights, regardless of rank, will make mistakes especially when the fight isn't going the way they want.

      In BJJ we get a lot of cross training, we've seen black belts from all sort of martial arts and most of them don't stay. They get submitted and sometimes they just get frustrated that their belt rank doesn't translate. It would be the same if I decided to do a different martial art, my purple belt doesn't mean squat in TKD or Karate. They are different arts. I think the author failed to really parse out why these people leave besides just that they couldn't take not being "real" fighters. 1. They may just not like it. 2. Their ego can't take it (not a lot of people continue a martial art they've started no matter how many martial arts they've done previously) 3. They aren't good at it and don't want to take time away from a martial art they have already worked very hard in and received a black belt. 4. Maybe they are older, or work a job where bruises aren't okay, or where they can't afford to get hurt, so a full contact sport like BJJ/MMA is out of the question for them. These are all valid reasons and I don't think all of them constitute a lack of acceptance of reality.
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      Ray Let me rephrase this.

      Traditional martial arts teaches you how to strike and or grapple. Within a said style mostly. Yes it can and often does work on against styles.

      Most often thought none are truly pressure tested. Against another style or styles. I hear constantly how if it were a real fight I would do this or that. Well how do you truly know? Have you done it in a real fight?

      I see martial arts practitioners giving a false sense of self defense and bad ass attitude. Yet most who practice have never been hit or even put in a bad situation in the first place.

      I dis agree that just because you practice martial arts you are a better fighter. Training to actually fight makes you a better fighter. Natural ability is also a big plus
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      Andy @Ray, that's the point I am trying to get across! traditional MA self defence isn't supposed to work against any and everybody, it is meant to give you an overall advantage over an everyday non practitioner and as for the false sense of security, yes in certain cases absolutely but again this is a gross generalisation. I have never trained under any Sensei who told me that learning a style would make me invincible quite the opposite in fact, one of the first things a good Sensei will tell students is that if you can avoid/ walk away from a fight then that should always be your first option.
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    Which martial art has the least moves?
    Is there a martial that is simple to learn, an art that is stripped to the bare bones?
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      Andy [213500,Goldin Christie], some of the Russian styles such as systema are pretty streamlined. I don't know much about RMA but there are some great posts by [172230,Superamazingbadgerman] regarding RMA here on the community.
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      Al W Suiminnokeikando
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      Andy Kyujutsu!
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    Is Fighting as basic as punching, kicking and wrestling?
    Do fighters need to learn more than punching, kicking and wrestling for self defense?
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      Andy I know it is a cliche but it's true! The mind is the most powerful weapon! Fists, feet, knees, elbows, knifes, guns and swords are all just tools at our disposal! It is the mind that governs how we use our tools, to be effective in fighting and more importantly avoiding fighting. It is as equally important to train the mind as it is to train our bodies! @Will -
      Black Belt Wiki raises an excellent point about verbal martial arts, in a real life threatening situation talking yourself out, escaping or avoiding the escalation of violence should always be the first options if given a choice!!! As for sport and sparring, strategy is as important as physical fitness and is what makes the difference between a pro fighter and a human punch bag!
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      Ray Yes you do. First you need de escalation skills. Even in the ring during a fight.

      Timing. The hardest single aspect of fighting.

      Apropriate force. When to hot and when to block.

      Local law. What's apropriate force here may be excessive force there

      Colatetal damage. Are witness young children? Etc.
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      Christopher Adamchek No and yes
      There are many great moves in martial arts can save your life from varieties of attacks

      But some school almost forget how simple and brutal a basic brawl is, the non fighting fighter type needs to be studied as well because they use simple adrenaline surged punches, kicks, and wrestling to destroy their opponent
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    Do you think you could successfully block a punch without any Martial Arts train...
    Most of us here on the community are martial arts practitioners and one of the first things we were taught in just about every non weapon based martial art is how to block a punch but do you think you (or non practitioners) could do this 'instinctively' without any MA training?
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      Al W Best defence, no be there
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      Goldin Christie I think they may work but to test it for real why not get your partner to put on boxing gloves and tell them to actually hit you either on the forehead or in the stomach and just see how you react if they don't pull the punches. Try to block 10 times and see how many times you have success, I tried it
      here: http://standstillbefit.com/karate-blocks-work
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      Llewena Carrero I think they could block reasonably well ... but a bit like my first ever sword cutting practice two weeks ago it may be a bit hit and miss. I did a bunch of lousy cuts that did go through the tatami then I completely fluked the best cut of the day ... you know where you cut and the two halves stay together? I have proof too ... :o)

      So an untrained person could block and may even fluke a really good block.
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