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  • How to be better fighter than a UFC or MMA fighter?
    Was training in a park recently with more experienced friend

    A passerby walked up and said that we looked good but asked if it could beat an MMA fighter. Before i could say anything my friend spoke up.

    "Absolutely....UFC has 31 rules - i have none. I would break every rule there is and probably a few they didnt even think to make."

    It was a great response!

    Share this post with a friend.
      • 3
      Bobby McFarlane HAHA. As the "arrogant" guy who is being quoted in the original post (thanks for the undo praise Chris) I feel I should throw in my two cents. Because it is easy and even understandable to make assumptions about me and my philosophy when everyone fills in the blanks around one phrase I spoke. Everyone here is making good points. The question asked was in the context of, is it possible for you, a more traditional martial artist, to beat a professional. This is usually and in this case asked in a out of the ring self defense context. Not "can you personally beat any given MMA fighter I put in front of you right now?" And not "Will you beat an MMA fighter?" It would be bold to assume I could beat any given person without some information on the scenario. and even then "shit happens" is a real possibility... I could lose to a ten year old girl with a well placed even accidental strike. Likely? no. But possible. ... Let me deconstruct the biggest points here to explain my answer a bit more.

      "There is no saying an MMA fighter wont fight dirty."
      Totally true but not substantial. I train in a traditional combative art that looks for dirty fighting and aims to defend dirty fighting as well as use it. Fool proof? No... but the reason I say I will break their rules first, is because they usually don't train to defend those things because it would be a waste of training time for them. If you end up in a fight with a Pro boxer I would expect you would not go toe to toe with boxing techniques... kick him in the shin, the groin, wrap him up and grapple with him and he is going to have a lot more trouble with you. Many MMA techniques are built to be somewhat air tight... IF certain rules protect them. This is not exclusive to MMA its true in every martial art mine included. Techniques outside our wheelhouse are dangerous. An MMA rear naked choke is devastating and I challenge you to tell me how you would get out of it in the ring. Put an MMA fighter in a rear naked, cinch it in nice and tight and correctly and ask him to get out for the sake of his life before he passes out... and watch him struggle to get his chin down push your arm up wiggle etc... it wont work. Drive a thumb deep through his eye ball (yes this takes practice but yes I have practice), he will go. Sand in the eyes, clawing, kicking while they are down, weapons... Pro fighters don't usually train these things. Does that make me a better fighter? Heck No. MMA fighters are amazing fighters and athletes. Is it POSSIBLE to beat them in a fight? yep, start by breaking their rules and being a trained fighter yourself. True of any martial art or sport art.

      Comparing Martial arts as better or worse is foolish in most cases. You can train MMA 6 days a week and never fully pressure test your skills and end up a less effective fighter. You can ALSO train at a McDojo two nights a week and go home and work your butt off to understand the art, pressure test your skills in a safe environment, study the details, work through drills and become an excellent fighter out of a McDojo. VERY few fights ever really come down to my art is better than yours, that's the stuff of movies and video games. A real fight is too complex to fully calculate... it is one person vs another in one situation vs another with whatever level of awareness and readiness they have going for them THAT DAY. We train with the goal of our worst day being better than our opponents best day but that is not always the cards we are dealt. In any fight you should avoid the fight first because you likely have NO IDEA how it will go... if you end up in a fight you do your best with what you have but you better believe the more good training you have, the more likely it will be POSSIBLE to overcome your opponent whether they are an MMA fighter or an untrained child. Never underestimate your opponent...

      Side note... Yeah I know its the internet but don't ASSUME that everyone who says anything that you disagree with out of context is untrained, inexperienced, arrogant, or even being fully understood. They probably aren't... but maybe they are :P
        • 2
        Will - Black Belt Wiki Welcome [228927,Bobby McFarlane]

        Good point that a second hand "quote" must be put into context before being judged. Of course, the simple answer is to blame that well known trouble maker [171786,Christopher Adamchek] !!!!!! :P

        Will
        • 2
        Andy Lol, hi [228927,Bobby McFarlane] and welcome to the community :) I fully agree (and I am speaking as a former bouncer who has been involved in many actual fights including one with a professional boxer who sucker punched me and very nearly broke my jaw who I laid out with a well placed headbut! :) there is an old saying "never box a boxer"!
        • 2
        Bobby McFarlane I think we can all agree this is too much explanation to throw at a guy walking by on a sidewalk asking a quick question. :)
        • 1
        Trevor Hill Nice comment.
      • 2
      Al W UFC/MMA shouldn't be the standard to which all MA are judged against.
      • 2
      James I agree broadly with both. One of the problems is that many of the techniques that are outide the rulebook either are very very difficult to land on a trained fighter or simply arent as effective as we'd like to believe.for example trying to get s thumb in the eye of a trained fighter is easier said than done and even if you get there as unpleasant as it may be its not a fight ender on its own. Strikes to the groin can take several seconds for the pain to register and can be fought through. The reality is that most of the fight ending knock out stuff is trained in by UFC guys every day and as [171807,Andy] says the key is to be as strong, fast and conditioned as they are as well as having a variety of interesting techniques to give you an exrra advantage.
      • 2
      Andy @Christopher Adamchek, excellent post Chris and for the most part I agree! (I have said the same here on the community on various posts!) Real fights have no rules!!! What I would add though is that most MMA full contact fighters are highly trained and conditioned and the rules imposed ONLY apply in the cage not in real life situations, as such skilled MMA practitioners have the build, stamina and techniques to be very dangerous and effective fighters in a real world situation outside of the cage! The only way to beat an MMA practitioner (or anyone else for that matter) is to be as well trained and conditioned (or better still, more so) than they are!
      • 0 2 votes
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        • 1
        Will - Black Belt Wiki Well said [171807,Andy]

        UFC fighters practice to survive a brutal fight and hopefully win millions if they ever become champions. This motivates them to train incessantly versus tough competition. In contrast, the average martial artist (who has a non-martial arts job) trains less frequently against much less aggressive opponents and often has to deal with more safety rules at the dojo. This inhibits the mindset of "breaking every rule" when being attacked.

        Will
        • 1
        Christopher Adamchek I agree, those guys can take and dish out a beating, it's their job to do so. And at the same time doesn't mean us regular martial artists can give them a run for their money lol.

        It's just sad when people think regular martial artists are a joke.
          • 2
          Will - Black Belt Wiki "People think regular martial artists are a joke... That is like a rabbit thinking a jaguar is not as tough as a lion. True but the jaguar can still eat the rabbit. :)

          Sorry for the bad animal analogy!

          Will
          • 1
          Superamazingbadgerman People think whatever they want. It takes A LOT of completely unrelated work to change a single one of their minds about ANY of their silly beliefs. I find it's easier to just let them think whatever crazy ideas they want.

          I can almost guarantee you it's all hot air, though. They're very vocal about our inferiority, but they wouldn't actually try to bet against us or beat any of us up.
      • 1
      Trevor Hill What gets me about such arguments is: does the trad MAist train to use those deadly techniques effectively? Why does everyone assume an MMAist won't use the same techniques out of the ring?
      • 1
      Joe Bramblett It's also worth noting that techniques that don't appear all that effective on the mat can have entirely different results outside the dojo. Anyone want to volunteer to take a particularly unfriendly uchi mata in a gravel parking lot? Most otoshi, garuma, makikomi, etc. throws are really going to do some damage on concrete, particularly uneven concrete like a curb or wheel stop in a parking lot, unless your ukemi is a heck of a lot better than most folks who only train on a padded sprung floor.
        • 3
        Andy [235694,Joe Bramblett], I agree (see my recent post on [171786,Christopher Adamchek]'s video), in a lot of traditional Jujutsu schools it is actually a grading requirement to be able to perform break falls on solid ground (which as you have pointed out makes absolute sense if any of the techniques learned in a dojo environment are to be realistically employed in a real world situation).
        • 1
        Christopher Adamchek ill have to do some throws and stuff on the street soon
        done hard wood, grass, and sand but not asphalt
        • 1
        Superamazingbadgerman Even things that are widely accepted as not a good idea are quite effective both on and off the mat. Spinning techniques, for example, are meant to address the multiplicity (dealing with multiple enemies at once) and to work unexpected angles.

        They're quite effective at coming from nowhere (with significant amounts of power), and anywhere between JUST noticeably better than direct attacks and fantastically effective against multiple enemies.

        It's also fun to note that you perform about half the fouls of MMA in an RMA takedown, and you perform the other half in the follow up.
      • 1
      Richie I feel a better answer would be something like:

      I train for self-defence not pick fights
      I train because it is fun and it protects my family and me
      If you want to pick a fight then you should train in MMA and get paid for it
      Have you been in a real street fight, because they are brutal messes and I like my eyes and eyes where they are so I don't go asking for it

      My response to these questions is always to choose peace.MMA fighters make money for their fights. If one fights on their own accord there is no real winner.
      • 1
      Ralph Don't. Be a better survivor. A better human.
      • 1
      Luis C Garcia As a Karate practitioner I have always been concerned about being able to counter a take down , since I do not feel confident about ground fighting and facing several opponents while being on the ground .Any ideas on preventing a quick take down ?
        • 1
        James Hi [228989,Luis C Garcia] . It seems like you are referring to a live situation rather than in thevdojo. Assuming that you cant avod the confrontation In my view the best way to prevent a quick takedown or pretty much anything else is to render your attacker unconcious. Maximum force snd controlled aggression with powerful strikes to the head, groin,throat. If plan a isnt happening be aware that a takedown may happen and the second that it becomes a grappling match ensure you have a solud base and try to take control of something, i,e an limb or the head. My favourite is to get n close and grasp the head. Do it right and you can restrict the range of arm movement reducing their reach and watering down the effectiveness of thier strikes. Once you have the head you can access the eyes, the throat, tyou can manipulste tge direction of their body and a hard elbow to the face is very acheivable from this position. Every situation is different though so my overriding advice is just dont let them grab you!
          • 1
          Luis C Garcia Thank you I has thought or envisioned the same techniques .There are kata bunkais that imply head strikes , such as the final movement of Seipai Thanks
      • 1
      Nico An afterthought to my previous post: On top of everything I said below, one cannot assume that a UFC/MMA-fighter wouldn't be able to fight "dirty", too, simply because he/she does not do so in the cage/ring.
      • 1
      Nico "Absolutely....UFC has 31 rules - i have none. I would break every rule there is and probably a few they didnt even think to make."

      I'd like to make a few comments regarding this bold statement. Yes, it is true that in many if not all traditional martial arts there are techniques that are banned in UFC/MMA-fights. However, you should not jump to the conclusion that you would win a fight against a UFC/MMA-fighter because you know and have practiced such "forbidden techniques". In my opinion, what's more important to do well in a fight is timing, speed, seeing possible openings and extensive training with a fully resisting opponent. If you don't practice these things you may not get a chance to apply your killer techniques against a well trained UFC/MMA-fighter.
      • 1
      Ray O.k. I deal with this every day. I train with pro mma fighters. One thinks he is unbeatable. He lost his last 4 fights. The other admits anyone can beat him. He won his last 3. Ironically the first has zero traditional training. The latter has several years.

      Since I do spar and grapple with them on a regular basis I can tell you for certain that it is how you train more than what you train that makes you an effective fighter.
      It is extremely different fighting these guys vs the amature fighters. A lot of the locks that don't work on the pros work on the amature folks.

      Now let's add in the whole adrenaline thing. I witnessed a broken hand continue to be used like nothing was wrong. A knife wound that only started to bleed after the victim relaxed.

      Fact is most who train in the in martial arts don't truly pressure test their skills. Most who do mma training are training to fight. They are very used to getting hit, and reacting to those hits.

      It is arogant to assume that an illegal in mma move would win the day. It could for sure, but with the skill and training of even some of the lowest rank pros it is unlikely.

      Now I am not saying that the illegal stuff is useless it has its place. But I assume then that your life is on the line and you are ready for possible jail time. I also want to add this little bit of info. During my peak training. I would run 2 or 3 miles and weight train 5 days a week. I did Chidokwon 3 days, boxing 3 days, and grappling 3 days, and mma drilling with the fighters 4 days. some days I would be training up to 6 hours after work. many of the pros train like that 6 days. And they would kill for a beer a week out from a fight. ;)
      • 0 1 vote
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        • 1
        PAUL (paldo) REYNOLDS Interesting good perspectives @ Ray. Now were into the real thing without scarcasism and arrogance from others and thats great. Also, agree with @ Andy and @ Will's remarks that leads to good conversations etc. I hope others will contribute equally as well. Interesting about the lawsuits...they didn't happen before so much employment layoffs occurred in the USA and perhaps its that way all around the world as some have commented. Personally, as I like boxing, karate, I also like MMA on TV for I find it interesting in observing the various techniques of contact. A lot like boxing and kickboxing that I observed in Thailand years ago call Mui Tai ! In Thailand at the professional level is good to see for the matches are serious and a lot of money rides on them, legally and illegally. I still like boxing of today, its coming back with real good tv entertainment from around the world especially on the Spanish TV station sponsored by Takati beer for I thing its Telemundo.
        • 1
        Andy Hi @Ray, good points and again for the most part I agree, this is again something I have tried to get across on various posts here on the community! No matter what style anyone trains in (including MMA) just going to class for a couple of hours 2 or 3 times a week is not going to turn you into the next Bruce Lee or Stipe Miocic, it is dedication and the extra work you put in outside the dojo that makes all the difference (especially in this day and age where as [171668,Will - Black Belt Wiki] pointed out an instructor is in danger of getting sued over a bruised knuckle and we have schools banning push ups for fear of personal injury lol). Even at good quality no nonsense dojo and training gyms there is only so much time spent in class which is in most cases given over to instruction on various techniques. How much fitness training and conditioning you do is entirely down to an individual and how far they are willing to go to be an effective martial artist.
          • 1
          Ray @Andy. This is one of the hardest points to get across to some. There is an individual who shows up every 6 months or so to start training just for a fight. He has an impressive record of wins for an amature. He complains that he can't go pro under the gym. For obvious reasons.
        • 1
        Will - Black Belt Wiki Very good point - "Fact is most who train in the in martial arts don't do truly pressure test their skills".

        In addition, instructors/owners at most "local" martial arts schools wish that they could add more realism to training but face the possibility of getting sued if someone is hurt. This fear of being put out of business limits many dojo owners.

        [217441,Ray] - How do MMA schools deal with the injury & lawsuit issue? I assume that there must be many more injuries at a MMA school than the typical martial arts school.

        Will
        Black Belt Wiki
          • 1
          Ray The waiver is very broad. Really everyone who comes to a mma gym assumes that the training is brutal and they are going home with a black eye and broken bone. Suprise. It's a myth. Injury rate is not as high as one would assume. Most all the students and trainers have jobs. They all need to pay the bills. The training only goes to 3/4 power 6 weeks out from a fight, and then it's not all the time. Other than then it's basicly just like at any other dojo. Tons of drilling and being a good partner. Ocasionaly though there is a stone cold killer that steps up. They rarely come back on week 2

          We do get to go full out once in a blue moon. But the "rules" are still in place. Again. We all have to go to our day jobs.

          In the last 4 years I have had 2 broken toes, fractured knuckle, and 2 dislocated shoulders. Along with all the minor bloody nose, goose eggs and heavy bruises
            • 1
            Ralph I've actually read several waivers. You'd be surprised how many contain spelling errors. Yes, even the word waiver in a waiver...
            • 1
            Will - Black Belt Wiki Is there any difference for the pro fighters training for MMA matches? How do they prepare for an all-out fight without injuring themselves or their partners before the match?
              • 1
              Ray Not really. It does no good to be injured at training camp. Then the actual fight is in question.

              The pros do go harder with the pros, and some of proven capible.

              Excuse the language here only asshat fighters go full out on a team mate.

              You are an amature to learn weather or not getting hit is for you. You are a pro when you are confident enough to train at 1/2 power and know it it will work at full power,but still have the ability to not hurt your teammate.

              Unless you are conner Mcgregor you need a team to stick by your side. Hurting them is not the way to keep them.

              Full on contact is rarely done in trainig but it does happen. No one wins in these instances.
              • 0 1 vote
      • 1
      PAUL (paldo) REYNOLDS In expression, some things are just not thought out ! as in this post. I'll call it adolescence to be polite. The post asks: How to be a better fighter than a UFC or MMA fighter and goes on and dismisses any rules, quote "UFC has 31 rules - I have none". Furthermore, it quotes, it was a great response. My response does not include any other respondants to this post to be kind. The fact that no rules pertained to this post's challenge, and if I was a contestant, I would not announce my talent to "kill" in order to become a greater fighter than a UFC or MMA fighter. After all, no rules were explicit to this challenge. How can anyone tell in advance the complete talent of a trained martial artist and is willing to take a challenge as offered in this post. Are you now willing to take the challenge with a "death" outcome ? Perhaps this is a greater unexpected response ...killing a "Shogun" is harder than you think or did you not think completely when responding !

      Not being harsh nor personal ! Lesson learned in Japanese dojo still pertains today....arrogance defeated by multiple kumite matches equals humility in nursing your pains ! There is no talk or refusal in kumite matches , except for medical reasons declared in advance. One must comply to meet kumite matches ! In other words, if arrogance is not defeated in the dojo, then the arrogance will not be allowed in the dojo ! Sayonara is saying good-bye politely ! Edict or order is a personal responsibility and is expected to be maintained, therefore, tact and diplomacy should replace arrogance and careless attitutes for others to follow !
      • 0 1 vote
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